NO MIDDLE GROUND

[Greg Crawford]

I was reading that months issue of FILMMAKER magazine, a very good issue by the way, one of the article was going on about how much this dv movie cost. then the next and the next. It occurred to me that there is no middle ground from working for free on another ultra low budget, "trust me kid it's good experiences," film.

The "successful DV filmmakers" either goes on to making another ultra low budget flick where another set of willing to work for free people pay their dues..to never get paid.

Or that filmmaker moves to Hollywood, to hire union crews.

[calgodot]

What do you mean by "middle ground?"

[Alex]

MIddle ground, in my opinion, means either filmmakers make their "own" movies off the sweat of others for no pay, then after finishing their project, are successful and get a picture deal and hire "professionals" for their next movie, or they make another low-budget movie, again not paying anyone, etc....

The middle ground has been sucked out.

[Greg Crawford]

You got it Alex!

I'm not opposed to helping people and working on ultra low budget films.
It's just it seems never to lead anywhere.

[calgodot]

OK, I think I understand the meaning of "middle ground."

"Middle ground" = get $$$ for making your own (or someone else's?) DV/film

It seems to me that DV has definitely broadened the "low ground" that precedes this middle: where there were perhaps dozens of people making their own ultra-low budget films before DV (16mm), there are now hundreds or even thousands doing it with DV. The widely touted low cost and ease-of-use that DV provides translates into a democratization of the filmmaking process. (It reminds me of the Internet boom circa 1995: those of us who had been online for years (myself since 1984) were in for a culture shock when AOL launched and thousands, even millions, of "ordinary people" jumped online.)

I've worked on a few productions that were DV (two miniDV and two HD) that paid most if not all of the actors and crew. I even got fired from a miniDV documentary shoot that had a fat check for me had I completed my DP duties. At least one producer I know has said that the appeal of DV to him, from a budget perspective, is that it gives him a chance to actually pay people, as opposed to spending money on film, camera crew, etc.

On the ultra-low budget indie side, though, it is almost impossible to get paid. But was there a middle ground in film? Was it really that easy to go from 1/2 ultra-low budget 16mm projects to a paid gig, or funding for the next 16mm film?

[Greg Crawford]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cal godot:OK, The widely touted low cost and ease-of-use that DV provides translates into a democratization of the filmmaking process. , even millions, of "ordinary people" jumped online.) </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm more interested in being a DP than a Director.... I seem to have two choices...I can site on the sidelines doing nothing or produced-directing-shoot my own films. Since there seems to be so little going on hear in the midwest. I'm sure if I had more of a track record and could devote full time to filmmaking it might be a different story.

The democratization of the filmmaking process is a good thing.

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cal godot:
OK, I think I understand the meaning of "middle ground."

"Middle ground" = get $$$ for making your own (or someone else's?) DV/film</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not exactly...middle ground means the majority of productions now offer no pay at all. Sure there are more of these productions, lots more, but for no pay.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cal godot:

It seems to me that DV has definitely broadened the "low ground" that precedes this middle: where there were perhaps dozens of people making their own ultra-low budget films before DV (16mm), there are now hundreds or even thousands doing it with DV. The widely touted low cost and ease-of-use that DV provides translates into a democratization of the filmmaking process. (It reminds me of the Internet boom circa 1995: those of us who had been online for years (myself since 1984) were in for a culture shock when AOL launched and thousands, even millions, of "ordinary people" jumped online.)</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, this is all a ruse to sell as many computers to as many people, and mislead the public along the way. The whole 4.1.1 versus 4.2.2 issue has completely been ignored, and that is a form of fraud.
Digital is sold as all being perfect, when in fact, 4.1.1. processing is inferior to 4.2.2. processing.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cal godot:

I've worked on a few productions that were DV (two miniDV and two HD) that paid most if not all of the actors and crew. I even got fired from a miniDV documentary shoot that had a fat check for me had I completed my DP duties.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got to hand it to you, cal godot, you have a knack for inserting out of the blue, raise the roof questions, even on yourself! Do tell, maybe the rest of us can learn a better way to either approach the situation you found yourself in, or to avoid it should it come up.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cal godot:

At least one producer I know has said that the appeal of DV to him, from a budget perspective, is that it gives him a chance to actually pay people, as opposed to spending money on film, camera crew, etc.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't believe that. That's spin talk for I have very little money, but I'd rather give it to crew rather than equipment, a noble thought nonetheless.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cal godot:

On the ultra-low budget indie side, though, it is almost impossible to get paid. But was there a middle ground in film? Was it really that easy to go from 1/2 ultra-low budget 16mm projects to a paid gig, or funding for the next 16mm film?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, because there were less people in the field, so it was easy to find work. Now, the legitimate productions have to be competitive with the pie in the sky productions that succeed one out of a hundred times.

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cal godot:
I even got fired from a miniDV documentary shoot that had a fat check for me had I completed my DP duties.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>


I guess I'll ask for a third time, (twice here, once on another topic post) Could you delve into the above situation?

This is like waiting for Godot. [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]confused.gif[/img]

[calgodot]

My first DP gig was on a documntary. It was the producer's first project. He had some money and believed in the project. I believed in the project and had no money.

I was just off directing my first DV feature. We were about three months into post-production on my film when I accepted the DP gig. I figured it would help take my mind off the problems with my film. (There were a lot of problems. So manythat the feature became a 40-min short.)

One day the producer and his assistant were very late in getting us to a site to shoot a meeting. Then they got us lost trying to get there, and I didn't get to have my morning coffee.

Once we got there the meeting was underway. So I didn't get to pause for a cup of coffee. Then they told me the sound person was not coming. So I had to rig sound (luckily we had the gear), then quickly train the AP in holding boom & cable.

She tugged on the cable constantly, which pulled the camera every time and ruined many shots. She also could not stand wearing headphones for more than about 3 seconds, so she kept taking them off. Which would usually get them tangled withthe mic cable, which would yankt he camera.

Then we were to set up for an interview. We were at about 46 minutes on the tape. I wanted to pop it and roll another tape for the interview, but the producer wanted to try & squeeze it on.

Then the battery ran out. And he had forgotten to bring another battery. (Normally that would be my responsibility, but the guy wouldn't let me keep his gear.)

I lost my cool and snapped at the producer. He snapped back. We exchanged words briefly. Then we went outside. Were it not for the presence of the AP, I would likely have knocked the guy on his *** . We yelled, screamed, waved our arms. Things calmed down. I apologized.

He called me later and fired me. I told him, no problem, I'd do the same thing.

He later hired a friend, who told me hilarious stories of how the production went completely to **** . As far as I know, the film was never finished.

Moral of the story: Always be prepared. And always buy your DP a cup of coffee. Good coffee, too. Not that **** they have at AA meetings.

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cal godot:


But was there a middle ground in film? Was it really that easy to go from 1/2 ultra-low budget 16mm projects to a paid gig, or funding for the next 16mm film?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

However, usually the 16mm film projects was *****d with professionals who, if they liked your work ethic, would call you for their higher budgeted productions.